tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post6844714732369910670..comments2024-03-27T22:25:42.129-05:00Comments on Reading the Past: Aristotle and Accuracy in Historical Fiction: A guest post by David J. CordSarah Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13340312953393474963noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-8618903221375967252018-02-24T11:37:26.867-06:002018-02-24T11:37:26.867-06:00I like looking through an article that will make m...I like looking through an article that will make men and women think.<br />Also, thanks for permitting me to comment!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-41952383037090029532018-02-21T06:15:37.621-06:002018-02-21T06:15:37.621-06:00I always was interested in this subject and still ...I always was interested in this subject and still am, appreciate it for posting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-6636552786583665052017-11-11T13:57:11.714-06:002017-11-11T13:57:11.714-06:00Great, hope you enjoy reading the blog!Great, hope you enjoy reading the blog!Sarah Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13340312953393474963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-26336451993506992442017-11-11T13:52:49.646-06:002017-11-11T13:52:49.646-06:00Howdy! I could have sworn I've been to this bl...Howdy! I could have sworn I've been to this blog before but after reading <br />through some of the post I realized it's new to me.<br />Anyhow, I'm definitely happy I found it and I'll be book-marking and checking back frequently!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-62331058888862499382017-06-19T18:30:05.371-05:002017-06-19T18:30:05.371-05:00Really plenty of terrific info!Really plenty of terrific info!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-12755717487221270122013-09-14T18:26:21.566-05:002013-09-14T18:26:21.566-05:00(Try again! ) And of course our perceptions of his...(Try again! ) And of course our perceptions of history are inevitably shaped by those who record it, and many of them had their own agendas. We could say that to some degree all history as we know it is fiction :)Annishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02367569632016734415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-72532924097031127982013-09-13T11:34:46.096-05:002013-09-13T11:34:46.096-05:00Great post, David, and timely on a personal level ...Great post, David, and timely on a personal level as I am currently working on my first historical fiction novel in which I am using actual historical figures (in this case Edward Teach AKA Blackbeard the infamous pirate.) In my first book, Sea Snow, I was only concerned with getting the facts straight regarding life at the turn of the 20th century. I think a reader will excuse a fiction writer's changes in a historical figure's storyline easier than having something show up like zippers in the 1800's. Fiction is, after all, a "what if..." scenario.Kate Louise Woodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14075969374291686407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-58129780111590466542013-09-12T14:01:20.832-05:002013-09-12T14:01:20.832-05:00Sometimes they change things that really should no...Sometimes they change things that really should not be changed, which the 'creators' would know should not be, if they had any actual empathy with the proverb, "The past isn't past."<br /><br />To re-use my previous example: there is so much concerning the French Revolution, the Napoleonic era, and U.S. history that continues to affect the people who are descended from the people alive when those actions were taken and the decisions made. This include horrible economic conditions, the place of spiritual practice in everyday life, to malnutrition, bigotry and white supremacy. These are not abstracts, and the people involved know well what happened.<br /><br />To ignore all that in favor of 'the story I want to tell' is supremely disrespectful and ultimately leaves the work with value, even as entertainment -- except perhaps for the supremely clueless.<br />Foxessahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06754083123669916994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-50417940705807404832013-09-12T12:59:58.950-05:002013-09-12T12:59:58.950-05:00I am surprised at how some novelists seem to chang...I am surprised at how some novelists seem to change what we know about history for no clear reason. I've read about a six foot Julius Caesar with a face like a Hollywood star, medieval soldiers with the sword-arm strength of super-heroes and people of almost two thousand years ago using phrases from the day before yesterday. I think that it is futile of a historical novelist should strive for accuracy, it will never be achieved. But we should strive for authenticity. Martin LakeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-51745762811897679252013-09-12T00:01:08.645-05:002013-09-12T00:01:08.645-05:00Why, hello again Richard!
I'm not familiar wi...Why, hello again Richard!<br /><br />I'm not familiar with Lincoln. I wonder what the reason behind such changes could have been? It may have been to better fit the plot, perhaps, or maybe it was carelessness. It is hard to tell, and I think this is one reason why people get upset about changes. They tend to think it is a mistake, and they might be right. If it had something to do with an agenda it makes it even more suspicious.<br /><br />Thanks for your comment!David J. Cordhttp://www.davidcord.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-66355836115500468882013-09-11T23:57:16.875-05:002013-09-11T23:57:16.875-05:00Yes, I think it takes a great deal of research to ...Yes, I think it takes a great deal of research to make the setting believable. David J. Cordhttp://www.davidcord.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-82591459600929918092013-09-11T23:47:07.247-05:002013-09-11T23:47:07.247-05:00I think many authors do that. Mantel did it for Br...I think many authors do that. Mantel did it for Bring Up the Bodies, and I recall Vidal doing it at the end of Julian. There was one old pulp author who used to put in footnotes to explain whenever he deviated from facts.<br /><br />Thanks for your comment!David J. Cordhttp://www.davidcord.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-48380439088379744242013-09-11T23:45:17.939-05:002013-09-11T23:45:17.939-05:00I suppose readers are more unforgiving for somethi...I suppose readers are more unforgiving for something that seems like a mistake - like giving ancient Romans stirrups - than something that was changed for the story - like putting a historical figure in a situation which never happened but was necessary for the plot. It is a fine line.David J. Cordhttp://www.davidcord.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-27576326725414906742013-09-11T23:42:00.623-05:002013-09-11T23:42:00.623-05:00That's wonderful, Donna. I hope it helps your ...That's wonderful, Donna. I hope it helps your discussion!David J. Cordhttp://www.davidcord.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-49142030512646804452013-09-11T23:40:50.686-05:002013-09-11T23:40:50.686-05:00Thanks, Judith! I hope you like it.Thanks, Judith! I hope you like it.David J. Cordhttp://www.davidcord.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-9618236105606435852013-09-11T23:39:47.993-05:002013-09-11T23:39:47.993-05:00Great! I'm glad you liked it.Great! I'm glad you liked it.David J. Cordhttp://www.davidcord.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-87754951708484501642013-09-11T23:39:00.573-05:002013-09-11T23:39:00.573-05:00... or many very old stories. Aristotle was very g...... or many very old stories. Aristotle was very good at recognising what already existed.<br /><br />Thanks!David J. Cordhttp://www.davidcord.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-84842296072157980842013-09-11T23:37:24.257-05:002013-09-11T23:37:24.257-05:00Yes, Aristotle mentions when characters are put in...Yes, Aristotle mentions when characters are put into situations the audience wouldn't agree with. A famous example is to make Achilles a coward.<br /><br />Thanks for your comment!David J. Cordhttp://www.davidcord.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-5083842250995730642013-09-11T14:16:05.954-05:002013-09-11T14:16:05.954-05:00Like others, I think it depends a lot on the inten...Like others, I think it depends a lot on the intention of the book or film. As a non-American, the level of careful detail in the film 'Lincoln' led me to think that the historical stuff was accurate. Later an American told me that in fact there were many deliberate changes, such as presenting some officials as anti when they were in fact pro (and presumably vice versa). So then you start to wonder what the agenda of the film makers was? If you are going to deliberately change something (as opposed to making educated guesses between conflicting evidence) then I think there should be a clear signal that this is what you are doing.Richard Abbotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17263422336568571553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-41717640081800558422013-09-11T13:30:01.026-05:002013-09-11T13:30:01.026-05:00As you say, it depends a great deal on the author&...As you say, it depends a great deal on the author's intent.<br /><br />But there are authors who don't know enough of the history and don't know they don't know, and they commit non-amusing bollocks up in their work. As one writer recently, focused entirely on the pretty clothes of the French Revolution and Empire posited some of the most ludicrous relationships between Josephine and people of color. She screwed the pooch in every way when it came to people of color from the West Indies in the period because she didn't know anything about the history, the geography and the cultures of anything to do with the Caribbean.<br /><br />Foxessahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06754083123669916994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-25791344433352403902013-09-11T12:38:32.825-05:002013-09-11T12:38:32.825-05:00Excellent post and fascinating discussion. As a hi...Excellent post and fascinating discussion. As a historical fiction author myself, I try my damnedest to stick with known facts. Where there is some question, I always include notes in the back to explain some of the choices made.Vicky Alvear Shecterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17570828339389206203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-79750749024470845762013-09-11T11:47:05.938-05:002013-09-11T11:47:05.938-05:00I agree completely with David about historical acc...I agree completely with David about historical accuracy. There is a popular author who is frequently criticized, and criticized vehemently, for "bending" historical fact to make her books more readable, or for whatever reason she does it. Doesn't bother me in the least. I'm not a historian, just a book-lover. And for the record, I loved the movie Marie Antoinette, and didn't even notice the high-tops. Denisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12664822276303146192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-61023228597386076892013-09-10T16:12:25.730-05:002013-09-10T16:12:25.730-05:00A great post. Thumbs up David J. Cord. I'm l...A great post. Thumbs up David J. Cord. I'm leading a library discussion on historical mysteries soon and I will use your article here to help them understand the authors' use of history as a factor in setting.Donnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01140033967048452572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-72687363677963545482013-09-10T16:11:42.993-05:002013-09-10T16:11:42.993-05:00I agree with David Cord's post. And if you say...I agree with David Cord's post. And if you say you write historical fiction you are clearly defining yourself, not as a historian, but as an author of fiction, albeit historically originated. If an author "adjusts" the historical facts to suit the story, we readers know to always look at the author's notes at the end of the book, or sometimes on their website. (Or perhaps a disclaimer preface would better suit the more historically pure.) Thanks Sarah. I will be reading this fascinating story - Dead RomansJudith Scharahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06629065670753694883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19307003.post-70390971224672546712013-09-10T15:37:53.890-05:002013-09-10T15:37:53.890-05:00A very interesting post concerning a dilemma I am ...A very interesting post concerning a dilemma I am struggling with myself. Thank you.Frances Bevanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04844654551121374440noreply@blogger.com